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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jun 7, 2008 7:27am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Here's an example:
http://www.archive.org/details/AFistfulOfDynamite

Well-known Italian film of the 1970's. Uploader's description refers one to IMDB for more info. IMDB lists "Copyright Holder Rafran Cinematografica S.p.A." So, does this mean it's still in-copyright?

More questions may follow on this thread.


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2008-06-07 14:27:54

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Poster: NDArch Date: Jun 8, 2008 7:28am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

One problem with reporting a non-PD (or a maybe non-PD) film is that if one does it in the forum or review section for the film, the downloading of it increases as people realize that the film will be removed shortly.

A humble suggestion: What the place needs is a person or a few persons that can be directly contacted by email to manage this kind of thing. Of course, one could simply email archive.org, I suppose.

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Poster: LordOfTheExacto Date: Jun 8, 2008 12:30pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

" One problem with reporting a non-PD (or a maybe non-PD) film is that if one does it in the forum or review section for the film, the downloading of it increases as people realize that the film will be removed shortly."

Guilty. I'm not sure how I can square it with my conscience, but somehow I manage to every time. :)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jun 8, 2008 12:36pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Heh, panic downloading is only a short-term problem though (10's of downloads). Longterm secretly bad stuff is a bigger problem (1000's of downloads). So let in the sunshine!

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Poster: NDArch Date: Jun 8, 2008 3:47pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Yup, I guess I'd agree with that. So, let's start the ball rolling:

Question on PD status of Funeral Home
http://www.archive.org/details/Funeral_Home

IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083976/) has "Funeral Home (1980)" also being known as "Cries in the Night." So a search of the U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Catalog: Books, Music, etc. turned up the following listing:

Type of Work: Motion Picture
Registration Number / Date: PA0000167372 / 1983-02-03
Supplement to: PA0000141364 / 1982
Application Title: Funeral home (on original appl.: Cries in the night)
Title: Cries in the night.
Copyright Claimant: The Incident at North Hampton Productions, Ltd.
Supplement to Registration: PA 141-364, 1982
Other Title: Funeral home
Names: Incident at North Hampton Productions, Ltd.

To me it appears that though the movie was released in 1980, no attempt was made to copyright it until at least 1982. But then for some reason there was a "Supplement to Registration" in 1983. Maybe to correct a mistake in the original paperwork for registering for copyright?

Of course, I may be all wrong on my thinking. . . "For I'm just a soul who's intentions are good. Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood."

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Poster: Westwind Multimedia Date: Jun 10, 2008 4:49am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

you know I read this thread from the start and I am a bit distrubed by its tone.

own feeling about copy right thing in general is it needs a re-write start to finish I think there are a lot of folks out there more than frustrated with how they read (or don't read) the laws are out dated as is the technology that track them.

I would say try to have a since of humor about it and remember the great vision of those that started this site! A vision much more profound than these copy right laws could ever be!

Peace!

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Poster: Campfire Date: Jun 12, 2008 11:33pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

>> own feeling about copy right thing in general is it needs a re-write start to finish

Unfortunately, it has HAD a re-write, in fact several recently, under the watchful gaze of Hollywood with the expressly stated purpose of extending copyright to the point that "public domain" no longer exists. From the original 56 years it was extended to 75 years and now to 100 years and it is applied to everything produced, whether or not an application was even made for copyright!

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Poster: kustota Date: Jun 7, 2008 7:10am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

if rights belonged to a corporation, this may apply:
"For a work made for hire, the copyright in a work created before 1978, but not theretofore in the public domain or registered for copyright, subsists from January 1, 1978, and endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication, or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain)
so it must be under copyriht until 2073!
we also must remember that this movie is translated to english, right to this translation much possibly belong to someone too.

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Poster: kustota Date: Jun 7, 2008 7:26am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain_film

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 7, 2008 11:38pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

Don't bother discussing this film further, I've removed it.

If you people are so concerned with any of the films I have on the Archives, is there some reason why you don't email me directly?

If you're going to piss and moan about any of these, at least the ones I've uploaded to the archives, how about if I just delete them all and free you up so that you can find something or someone else to piss and moan about?

I really don't appreciate this kind of thing going on behind my back, thank you very much.

And by the way, why don't you check the US Copyright office instead of wiki? I didn't happen to find the title there when I looked, maybe I looked in the wrong place, but it doesn't matter now, I have removed the film.

Sandra
Classic Cinema Online

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jun 8, 2008 12:45pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Hi Sandra, some of the readers of this forum are often quite knowledgeable about the fine points of messy film copyright, and so it's worth posting about questions on some films for open discussion here. Sometimes other folks do have a better feel than the uploader of an item, so again it's worth an open discussion. Personally I'm much more familiar with music than film, so more feedback is good to help in curation. This thread is an offshoot of a conversation in another thread about that.

In the above case, I started this thread with an example that was at the top of the download-accesses list for the day, so that's what I used. After posting, I realized I could contact you at your site, and did so. (Yes, sadly I've stopped relying on the addresses that people use for accounts here.) Thanks for replying here. My apologies that my noticing didn't happen in reverse order.

Next, if you would like, I can rapidly remove access to the files at my end, rather than your going to the trouble of removing files manually. Shall I do that? If there is anything with clear rights for hosting here that you'd like to remain, let me know!

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2008-06-08 19:45:05

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 8, 2008 6:42pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

By the way I've already removed the movie in question, I'm not going to go through the others just now. If there are complaints coming in by people who are legal owners and can prove that, then we will look into that, but some of the movies I put on here were for storage (for a short time) so please don't touch anything else unless you have complaints by copyright owners, and if you get those, then I expect you'll notify me immediately and give me the chance to respond first.

I've already had to deal with one person claiming to be a copyright owner of several films that were clearly in the Public Domain, and when he sent me a fake, unsigned document, I knew right away what was up. I found out that this person goes around sending threatening letters to people who have been showing public domain movies claiming to be the owner of these movies, and he uses different company names.

I realize there is a lot of gray area, but one good place to start your search is the US Copyright office. If it's not on record there then chances are pretty good that it's in the Public Domain.

I'm no expert, but if I find that something is in the Public Domain then I don't make it available for public use, but it's nice to have a place to store it until I can afford to store it elsewhere. I won't sell or give those away or otherwise make them available, but I can still legally use those for my own personal viewing.

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 8, 2008 6:57pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

I see your trigger finger was too happy to go ahead and remove the movies anyway -- and I have proof that I had permission to use the ones that weren't in the public domain, which most were.

Why did you bother asking me if you were just going to go ahead and remove them all?

Better remove Classic Cinema Online out of your wayback machine while you're at it, I never consented to having it in there.

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Poster: Spuzz Date: Jun 8, 2008 7:03pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Wow, someone is eating offcolored cornflakes today..

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 8, 2008 7:21pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Off colored corn flakes? Is that a racial slur?

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Poster: Spuzz Date: Jun 8, 2008 8:03pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

lol no, I just didn't want to say "Gee, someone pissed in your cornflakes today."

:D

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jun 9, 2008 6:15am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Hi Sandra, given the discussion of "panic downloads" elsewhere in the thread, I took these similar Italian ones offline (at least temporarily) pending further discussion:
http://www.archive.org/details/handfullamoolah
http://www.archive.org/details/MyNameIsNobody
http://www.archive.org/details/fewmorebucks
http://www.archive.org/details/OnceUponATimeInTheWest

As far as I know, others recently available still remain. However, I must reemphasize that this site is not set up to be a short-term personal/secret hosting site. If content can't be available longterm to all visitors, it probably shouldn't be uploaded here in the first place.

If there are specific items for which the rights are clear or for which you do have permission for hosting here, please let us know which those are; they can be annotated.

Regarding indexing of a site in the Wayback Machine, that separate question is covered here: http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#2

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2008-06-09 13:15:00

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 9, 2008 4:03pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

Well that's not something I wish to discuss here on this forum, if you'd like to email me about it that would be fine.

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 8, 2008 6:37pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rights?

It's just good manners to take it up with the party first and give them a chance to answer your question first before you go acting like a fool.

If you're unable to get the desired results that way, then it's a completely different issue bringing it up on a forum. But you should at least have the decency and common courtesy to go to the individual first and try to settle the matter that way. It would certainly be less insulting.

People shouldn't be made to feel like they're being put on the spot like that, it's just plain rude.

In the future if you have questions concerning copyright or even license to use a copyrighted work, you should go to the source first rather than making assumptions.

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Poster: jonc Date: Jun 8, 2008 9:22am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

classiccinemaonline.com wrote:

> Don't bother discussing this film further, I've
> removed it.

> If you people are so concerned with any of the films
> I have on the Archives, is there some reason why you
> don't email me directly?

In most cases that would be pointless, many people abuse the Archive for file sharing and often use dummy or pseudo email accounts. This would usually be ignored.

> If you're going to piss and moan about any of these, at
> least the ones I've uploaded to the archives, how about
> if I just delete them all and free you up so that you
> can find something or someone else to piss and moan
> about?

That is your prerogative. The Archive is a valuable resource but copyrighted works are not licensed here and are illegal. People are concerned that lawsuits may result and terminate this site. Hence, the "pissing" and "moaning".

> I really don't appreciate this kind of thing going on
> behind my back, thank you very much.

This is a public forum. Apparently it didn't take you long to find this discussion. As mentioned above, the most effective way to report illegal works is in these forums.

> And by the way, why don't you check the US Copyright
> office instead of wiki? I didn't happen to find the title
> there when I looked, maybe I looked in the wrong place,
> but it doesn't matter now, I have removed the film.

The Copyright Office's online service is limited. Title registrations only go back to 1978. Please have a look at

http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

for some insight on copyright law and public domain.


This post was modified by jonc on 2008-06-08 16:22:24

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Poster: kustota Date: Jun 8, 2008 2:33am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

hello. so you didn't even try to prove that this movie is public domain, good job. of course this site doesn't need any copyrighted stuff, if you want to share it, you can use file sharing sites.

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 8, 2008 9:55am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

By the way, I don't upload movies here to share in the way of being able to download them, I upload them so people can watch and enjoy them from here. I'm not into file sharing sites, and if I want your advice on how to do things I'll ask you. But don't hold your breath waiting...

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Poster: classiccinemaonline.com Date: Jun 8, 2008 9:27am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help with some incoming films' rifghts?

Why? I don't answer to you. If you question the legality of an upload, why can't you email the party directly instead of trying to start gossip on a public forum? What kind of people are you?!

Legally, it is the responsibility of the owner of any copyright to file complaints, not a bunch of people with too much time on their hands. Copyright owners usually don't hesitate to complain if it bothers them, and I'm sure that if there was an issue with this or any other movie they'd be sending letters to the Archives asking them to remove it.

They might also be in contact with the party who uploaded it, as well.

And if anyone who works at the Archives is in the position to be keeping an eye on what's copyrighted and what's not, then she should already know how to research that legitimately and should have the professionalism to directly contact the party who uploaded the movie and take the matter up with them instead of acting like a busybody and starting a gossip column about it, DIANE.

I don't usually participate in these forums, I think they're stupid -- I have better things to do than lower myself to the level of a bunch of internet trolls with too much time on their hands and not enough mental capacity to act human.




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